In a PERFECT sports world, your system would be ideal. However, in the REAL world in which we
live, what you want will NEVER happen. Number one, who is going to pay for the TRAVEL costs???
You state: "What would have happened if Australia had played against European teams to qualifier. It might not have made it through." The Aussies might or might not qualify against European Teams in
your qualification system. Again, what happens IF the Australian Basketball Federation cannot or will
not pay for the travel costs of their boys & girls youth teams???
JonL, you did not address the POLITICAL aspect of my response. As for myself, I WISH we could to-
tally separate politics from sports. But again, that would require a perfect world which we do not have. ALL of the boys youth national teams that can actually WIN FIBA's 2022 U17 World Cup for Boys in Basketball are in Spain.
I will give you tomorrow's winners:
Round of 16 Qtrs. Semis
Winners
France eliminates Slovenia
1. France France SHOULD eliminate Spain
2. Slovenia
Spain eliminates Australia
3. Spain
4. Australia
/////////////////////////
Team USA eliminates Serbia
5. Serbia Team USA eliminates
Lithuania, Mali, or Poland
6. Team USA
7. Lithuania Lithuania SHOULD eliminate
Mali or Poland
8. Mali or Poland? - Toss Up.
If Team USA is ON and they play their game, they win easily, they might even blow France or Spain out, [20+]. If they have a slightly off game, they still win, but with less than 15 or even 10 points in hand. France or Spain have to play PERFECTLY to win, and that's a single digit win, [9 or less] MAYBE. If
either one of them has an off night, they will be ROADKILL.
Cooper FLAGG has emerged as our best defender. In fact, I think he's the best defender in the com- petition. Holland is a player that must be accounted for at all times. Koa Peat is just 15 and can return
in two years.
Today France had a +/- of 69 & a team eff. of 151 against NZ.
Team USA had a +/- of 48 & a team eff. of 151 against Mali.
That gives you some idea of the relative strength of each team.
Team USA will play Serbia [R16] and more than likely Lithuania [Qtr.] That
gives them two excellent opponents as tune up games for the final. France
or Spain are @ 100% capacity now. Team USA is @ about 75%.
Australia played in the easiest pool in the Asia qualifiers.
It then played in the easiest pool in the WC in Spain.
And now their crossover against Lebanon which they beat by 60 points.
France beating Japan by 60 points and USA beating Egypt by 60 point just makes a mockery of FBI's claim these are the best 16 teams in the world.
Incidentally, speaking of politics, Israel and Turkey - the best teams in the Middle East - don't play against Middle Eastern teams but in the much harder European conference. Yes most of Turkey is in Asia aka the Middle East
I know this is after the fact but Australia really gave Spain a good fight. Would have been really interesting to see the game played on neutral territory in a World Cup.
Australia could match Spain at PG and C but the Spanish wings were just better and that made the difference
I meant that the Spanish wings were better than the Australians wings (Briggs, furphy, etc)
Regarding Whitmore, yeah i know, i watched the whole u18 americas. ruined my sleeping pattern for a few days for sure. he is certainly a beast. i think i even talked about him on fraschilla's podcast. cacoh loves him. says he will be a perfect fit for villanova.
If he gotes to the nba after one year at nova then he wont be on the u19 team.
that is always the problem with the usa team - dont get the one and dones and also cant get some of the rising freshmen if the coaches want their kids on campus early
JonL & David Hein need to understand ONE very important reason why we have the current qualifying structure.
POLITICS!!! FIBA is just like FIFA, the EUROS that run FIBA hand out qualifying spots to buy votes
from FIBA Americas [43 Votes], FIBA Africa [54 Votes] , FIBA Asia [44 Votes], & FIBA Oceania
[22 Votes] = 163 votes. FIBA Europe has 50 votes, do the math. JonL, do you really believe that 57
member nations outside of Europe will vote to increase European representation from six to
EIGHT European nations??? And exactly which FIBA Regional Zone will VOLUNTARILY sacrifice
one of THEIR qualifying spots to benefit Europe???
JonL, and to answer your contention that Greece & Italy are "better" teams than Lebanon, Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, & Bahrain. The solution is quite simple, defeat France, Lithuania, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, & Poland in the EUROPEAN U16 qualifiers.
You're both missing the point! FIBA claims the WC "features the world's top 16 men's U17 national teams".
This is plainly false.
It features the top teams from various regions.
If it wants to claim that it's the top teams in the world then it needs another round of qualifiers in which regions play against other regions and only the best go through. Rather than the best in certain regions.
NZ was smashed by France. It had an easy run in Asia. Australia had a dream run in Asia playing against the easiest teams in the easiest region such as Indonesia. What would have happened if Australia had played against European teams to qualifier. It might not have made it through.
It's times for us all to admit that the FIBA World Cup is not the best in the world but simply the best in their region and based on the results, half the teams in this WC finals are very good and the other half likely wouldn't have made it through if they'd played against even mediocre European teams.
Australia was in the easiest pool in Asia and the easiest pool in Spain. It's had a dream run. It probably would have qualified anyway. Given the lack of tough matches in the run up, it will be interesting to see how things go in the next match now that they're at the pointy end where they play serious contenders.
I think the current system is really not bad. It makes it exclusive enough for Europe that you really have to fight ...
USA and Canada are basically locks, so there is always a fight among mainly PUR DOM ARG BRA MEX for the other two spots.
Asia is a bit tricky because Australia and New Zealand are traditionally so much better than the Asian teams. Lebanon is really an outlier - no China in the tournament, remember they finished seventh the first three events when they still worked at the youth levels.
And you really need two African teams. But these "smaller" teams can really only get better and thereby grow the overall level of the game by facing the best teams.
Countries can also go the Mali route - have younger players play to get exposed to facing USA, FRA, AUS and then they can do something like U19 World Cup 2019.
Europe have hosted the event four of the six times meaning there has been an extra spot for Europe each of those editions. So that's another way for Europe to get another team.
David, my takeaway from the FBI U17 is that the World Cup needs to be revamped. We are not seeing the best basketball teams in the world.
Just look at the scores with some teams being whipped by 50-60 points.
We are missing some of the top teams in the world?
If this is the World Cup then they should be in Spain playing the World Cup.
They aren't here because of the way that matches are played within regions. That's why we have teams like Lebanon and Egypt getting whipped by 50 points rather than the much better teams of Greece, or Italy playing at this tournament.
It is a sad indictment of the way the qualifiers for these tournaments are organized.
Australia as an example has had the easiest run imaginable playing against countries like Indonesia, Jordan and Bahrain to get into this tournament. Incredibly it then landed in the easiest pool of all.
It's time for FIBA to change the way qualifiers are run so that the best teams in the world play the World Cup rather than some of the weakest national teams who are advantaged by being located in Asia and getting to play against Bahrain and Indonesia, hardly basketball powerhouses.
Thanks for the reply ... appreciate the time. I understand the issue but not really sure I entirely agree with you. One thing with FIBA Asia is that Australia and New Zealand have been part of the region since 2017 I believe and are basically two automatic spots in the youth World Cups. If they were not there I could get on board with just three spots for Asia but taking away a spot with Australia and New Zealand in the competition would mean more or less just one "Asian" team would be there. I think there needs to be two spots. I dont think you can take a spot away from Africa - esp after what Mali did at U19 WC in 2019. I do understand the issue but still, i would hate to take away the chance for other countries to advance.
Not suggesting that spots be taken away. I j think that the World Cup should be the best in the world. When some of the world's top teams are missing and some of the world's weakest teams are participating and getting walloped by 50 points then I think that changes need to be looked at.
Maybe more country teams should be going through to a second round of qualifiers in which the best teams in the world then compete for slots in the finals. The World Cup finals should be the best in the world and not the best in a bunch of mis-matched regions.
This quote is a PRIME example of why I despise Euro Basketball.
Alain LECLERCQ
Je m'exaspère. La compétition est mondiale. La FIBA est internationale et on n'entend que des commentateurs américains qui ne connaissent pas les joueurs étrangers, qui s'extasient sur des exploits individuels, qui oublient le collectif et le travail du passeur, etc... etc.... Je n'aime pas le basket américain bien trop individualiste
I am exasperated. The competition is global. FIBA is international and we only hear American commentators who don't know the foreign players, who rave about individual exploits, who forget
the collective and the work of the setter, etc... etc... I does not like American basketball which is too individualistic
/////////////////////////////////
Number one, Euro Basketball is the round cookie that is FORCED through the square cookie
cutter hole of Euro Soccer. Euro Basketball players are SYSTEM players, their basketball SYS-
TEM masks the lack of athletic players. I did not see ONE Athletic White European player in
FIBA’s 2022 U17 Tournament. Name ONE White player at the U17 Tournament who is anywhere
near Cooper Flagg athletically???
France IMPORTS its athletic players.
I will point out the HYPOCRISY of Alain LECLERCQ when he states: American commentators . . .,
who rave about individual exploits, who forget the collective and the work of the setter, etc... etc... I
does not like American basketball which is too individualistic
In soccer, the South Americans criticize the Europeans for the MECHANICAL, SCRIPTED, & FORMULAIC nature of their soccer. The South Americans prize the individual that can create that
magic moment with a move to shake a defender or the ability to dribble through or around a defender
that breaks their ankles and sets up a free run to the goal.
And I am sure that Alain LECLERCQ does not criticize a French National Team player that INDIVIDUALLY pulls off a great play that scores the winning goal in the waning moments of a
match to win the UEFA Euro Cup or FIFA’s World Cup.
What Alain LECLERCQ is really saying without even realizing it is he wants the scripted play of a classical music concert instead of the creativity, improvisation, & spontaneity of a jazz musician. American basketball at its best is jazz basketball.
Everything that FIBA does comes DIRECTLY from euro soccer. The competition format, the groups,
& the elimination rounds. FIBA’s Tournament qualification uses home & away and that’s fine for EUROPE. However, FIBA’s system does NOT work for the Western Hemisphere because of the TRAVEL distances. I do wish that FIBA would use soccer’s scoring system of 3 points for a win and
0 points for a loss.
IF FIBA where actually serious about their tournaments, they would use a SINGLE TABLE, again, just
like soccer. American Football & American Baseball used to use the single table method. Single table FIBA Tournaments would be a TREMENDOUS benefit for Team USA because of our ability to build deeper rosters and the American NBA players fully understand and embrace the 5 & 7 game series method to determine a champion.
Does anyone really believe that Argentina could or would have defeated Team USA in the 2004 Oly-
mpics in a five or seven game series?
One final note. Many Euro Basketball Fans believe that FIBA’s World Cup is the most prestigious International Basketball Tournament. In the European Basketball Mind the fact that Team USA does
not win like they do in the Olympics that proves that Euro Basketball is better than American Basket-
ball. Funny that since the Modern Olympics is a French invention and Basketball had its first Inter-
national Tournament in the 1932 Los Angeles Games. The American Public & American Athletes fully embraced the Olympic ideal and by 1968 in my experience, it was the ultimate in international competition. FIBA’s Basketball World Cup will NEVER have the geo-political undertones or intrigue
that resulted from the use of sports as a proxy war between Team USA and the USSR. For most American basketball players, the Oly- mpic Gold in Basketball is the ultimate international award.
And I do not see that changing anytime soon.
FIBA founded June 18, 1932.
First FIBA World Cup of Basketball 22 October – 3 November 1950
The U.S. Olympic Committee staged the 1932 Los Angeles Games between Jul 30, 1932 &
Spain and France pushing each other to get better will be good for both as they try to catch up to the Americans - which they slowly but surely are doing.
Can France or Spain duplicate a 44 game 6 consecutive title run? Get back to me when they do.
Can France or Spain's MEN & WOMEN duplicate 4 consecutive [2008, 2012, 2016, 2021] Olympic
Gold Medals in basketball? Get back to me when they do.
Can France or Spain compare to Team USA in FIBA's Senior World Cup for men & women? Get
back to me when they do.
In soccer they always say that YOUTH team success does not necessarily translate to the senior national team.
France & Spain are closer to the USA in the same manner that the Earth orbits closer to the sun
every summer.
Spain's Senior Men's Team best days are BEHIND them. They had a "Golden Generation" and NONE
of their young players can even begin to hope to replace them. France has the best African refugee
team in the world. Better than Canada's African refugee players. France is simply EXPLOITING the human capital of their former African colonies. As for Killian Hayes, Theo Maledon and Malcolm Cazalon, what have they done in the NBA, SQUAT!!!. The three of them can not even SNIFF Ja Morant's shoes.
Name one French or Spanish player that has EVER been the BEST player on an NBA championship Team?
The ONLY French player you ever hear about is Gobert, and that is for his playoff FAILURES as a player.
Utah shipped him off to the Timberwolves because he cannot anchor a championship team in the NBA.
Let's make a bet, who will win more international titles [Men & Women] between now and the Paris Olympics: Team USA, France, Spain? Two FIBA World Cups [Men & Women] & one Olympics - three Medals. Who do you have your MONEY$$$ on?
You have such great passion for the game - it's great. also some excellent knowledge of the international game. Good to see people be so passionate about youth basketball. Really thanks for that.
I believe you have misunderstood me. If I gave the impression that anybody could beat the Americans right now at the youth level - in particular the U17 level, that was not meant. All I am saying is that France in particuliar is developing more depth and that it is the depth that would be necessary to even have a chance to beat the Americans.
Only a fool would bet against USA in important national team events.
An absolutely plausible scenario. However, Aday Mara Gomez is not NEARLY as good as people
made him out to be. How does a 6'7" 15yr. old TOTALLY outplay a 7'3" 17yr. old that has played
in a professional environment for at least 2-3 years??? Gomez is SLOW and his shooting stroke
is AWFUL.
That game had Spain's best youth team by far and that was their BEST opportunity to date to beat
Team USA. Next year FIBA's 2023 U19 World Cup will be in Debrecen Hungary and Spain will not
have the HOME crowd and I fully expect Flagg, Holland, Peat, Cam Whitmore, & Kel'el Ware to
make the team. Kel'el Ware is a true 7" center and is faster and more nimble than Aday Mara Gomez. Ware at a minimum will neutralize Gomez. Take Gomez out of the equation & Spain falls HARD.
You can see both of these players in this years FIBA Americas U18 Tournament.
Kel'el Ware: POS: C HGT: 7'0" WGT: 223 Current Age: 18 YOG: 2022
I would agree with the likes of Flagg, Holland, Peat and maybe a couple more from the U17 team, but if Whitmore and Ware are one and dones for the draft, then they will not play at U19 World Cup.
Also, Spain are not guaranteed a spot at U19 World Cup etiher. They have to get a top-five spot at U18 European Championship in a couple of weeks
;-) no need to translate my words ... just limit your mistakes, hit your free throws and protect your glass. then you have done your work most of the time.
basically saying every loss that had a bad call late cannot be blamed on that bad call or the refs.
Almansa was voted the tournament’s MVP by the pro Spanish media, but Flagg, who made the all-tournament team with another rising sophomore Koa Peat– both made the all-tournament team. But there was at least three other strong candidates from Team USA.
Almansa was voted the tournament’s MVP by the pro Spanish media.
Translation: Almansa was voted the tournament’s MVP by the ANTI-American media.
let's not say it was anti-american - you really dont know that.
MVPs from USA is always kind of tough because they have so many stars and are so deep. actually think this was one of the clearer cut choices with flagg.
dont know the breakdown of the mvp vote - onsite media and accredited remote media can vote. have no idea how many remote media voted. imagine every on-site spanish media member voted and those people probably voted for their guy - not against the americans.
that's my take. and also Dick's take. pro spanish - dont translate what is written in english ;-)
Understandably that the emotions got some of the players. This was some sort of robbery, at this international stage in a final rarely seen. We have at least 4 clear blocking fouls that were called as charge, 3 walking calls that were never ever walks, they called Castillo in the first half with what at
the side or the walk on Holland in the 4th, 2 times the refs awarded Spain the ball that got touched
by Spain, calling Koat his 5th and every time under Spain's basket was open season, calling an un- sportsmanlike without no reason whatsoever. I mean come on this was some shit and then being
angry for not stealing the win they award the MVP as a sort of compensation. Wow.
Well, I never comment on refereeing other than teams should never blame refs for losing a game. Not saying this is what happened. But blaming refs for a loss is never the answer. Turn the ball over 12 times instead of 19, hit 79 percent of your free throws instead of 68 percent, give up just 8 ORs instead of 13.
regarding mvp to almansa, no idea what anybody in charge of anything was thinking. you had two americans who were on the all star five and could have been given the award. my clear was mvp was flagg, who also showed up big time in the final.
really have no explanation for almansa winning mvp
Thanks to everybody here for this great discussion. Definitely think it's worth having and hearing your opinions on.
Never easy to figure out issues like this
In a PERFECT sports world, your system would be ideal. However, in the REAL world in which we
live, what you want will NEVER happen. Number one, who is going to pay for the TRAVEL costs???
You state: "What would have happened if Australia had played against European teams to qualifier. It might not have made it through." The Aussies might or might not qualify against European Teams in
your qualification system. Again, what happens IF the Australian Basketball Federation cannot or will
not pay for the travel costs of their boys & girls youth teams???
JonL, you did not address the POLITICAL aspect of my response. As for myself, I WISH we could to-
tally separate politics from sports. But again, that would require a perfect world which we do not have. ALL of the boys youth national teams that can actually WIN FIBA's 2022 U17 World Cup for Boys in Basketball are in Spain.
I will give you tomorrow's winners:
Round of 16 Qtrs. Semis
Winners
France eliminates Slovenia
1. France France SHOULD eliminate Spain
2. Slovenia
Spain eliminates Australia
3. Spain
4. Australia
/////////////////////////
Team USA eliminates Serbia
5. Serbia Team USA eliminates
Lithuania, Mali, or Poland
6. Team USA
7. Lithuania Lithuania SHOULD eliminate
Mali or Poland
8. Mali or Poland? - Toss Up.
If Team USA is ON and they play their game, they win easily, they might even blow France or Spain out, [20+]. If they have a slightly off game, they still win, but with less than 15 or even 10 points in hand. France or Spain have to play PERFECTLY to win, and that's a single digit win, [9 or less] MAYBE. If
either one of them has an off night, they will be ROADKILL.
Cooper FLAGG has emerged as our best defender. In fact, I think he's the best defender in the com- petition. Holland is a player that must be accounted for at all times. Koa Peat is just 15 and can return
in two years.
Today France had a +/- of 69 & a team eff. of 151 against NZ.
Team USA had a +/- of 48 & a team eff. of 151 against Mali.
That gives you some idea of the relative strength of each team.
Team USA will play Serbia [R16] and more than likely Lithuania [Qtr.] That
gives them two excellent opponents as tune up games for the final. France
or Spain are @ 100% capacity now. Team USA is @ about 75%.
We shall see.
Here are my predictions for the rest of the tournament ... including final standings
FRA v SLO
ESP v AUS
SRB v USA
LTU v POL
- - -
FRA v ESP
USA v LTU
FRA v USA
1-8
USA, FRA, ESP, LTU, AUS, SRB, POL, SLO
- - -
JPN v ARG
CAN v LBN
DOM v EGY
NZL v MLI
- - -
ARG v CAN
DOM v MLI
CAN v MLI
9-16
CAN, MLI, ARG, DOM, JPN, NZL, EGY, LBN
Good predictions
Thanks a lot - every blind squirrel can find a nut every now and again i guess - haha
Astounded by how easy Australia has had it.
Australia played in the easiest pool in the Asia qualifiers.
It then played in the easiest pool in the WC in Spain.
And now their crossover against Lebanon which they beat by 60 points.
France beating Japan by 60 points and USA beating Egypt by 60 point just makes a mockery of FBI's claim these are the best 16 teams in the world.
Incidentally, speaking of politics, Israel and Turkey - the best teams in the Middle East - don't play against Middle Eastern teams but in the much harder European conference. Yes most of Turkey is in Asia aka the Middle East
Spain vs. Australia. This is where Australia gets off the bus. The only way
Australia sees the semis or the final will be as SPECTATORS. Spain can-
not blow ANY leads against France if they want to win.
----------------------------------------------------------
Team USA & France are clearly the two best teams at this tournament and
they continue to prove it. France might be in trouble against Spain IF their two
injured players cannot play against Spain OR if they find themselves hobbled
against Team USA. France CANNOT win the final against Team USA with a
ten man roster.
I know this is after the fact but Australia really gave Spain a good fight. Would have been really interesting to see the game played on neutral territory in a World Cup.
Australia could match Spain at PG and C but the Spanish wings were just better and that made the difference
If you think the the "Spanish wings" are good, go here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDdmf5IeZk4
CHAMPIONSHIP GAME: Brazil v USA | Full Basketball Game | FIBA U18 Americas
Championship 2022
After you WATCH Cam in this final, show me ANY Euro player 18 or less who is his
equal, mush less his superior? Victor Wembanyama is taller & longer, but Victor is
no where near as fast, strong, or explosive. I am not saying Cam is better than Victor,
But Victor cannot guard him one on one. Cam will blow past him. And Cam is more
than strong enough to box Victor out. Cam is built like an NFL linebacker or tight end.
Victor is 7 ft 3 in & 79 kg/174 lb.
Cam is 6'6" WGT: 108kg/237 pounds
His Team USA Profile page
https://www.usab.com/basketball/players/mens/w/whitmore-cam.aspx
NO one at this U17 competition can guard Cam Whitmore one on one.
POS: F HGT: 6'6" WGT: 237 Current Age: 18 YOG: 2022
I hope he makes Team USA's U19 team next year.
I meant that the Spanish wings were better than the Australians wings (Briggs, furphy, etc)
Regarding Whitmore, yeah i know, i watched the whole u18 americas. ruined my sleeping pattern for a few days for sure. he is certainly a beast. i think i even talked about him on fraschilla's podcast. cacoh loves him. says he will be a perfect fit for villanova.
If he gotes to the nba after one year at nova then he wont be on the u19 team.
that is always the problem with the usa team - dont get the one and dones and also cant get some of the rising freshmen if the coaches want their kids on campus early
JonL & David Hein need to understand ONE very important reason why we have the current qualifying structure.
POLITICS!!! FIBA is just like FIFA, the EUROS that run FIBA hand out qualifying spots to buy votes
from FIBA Americas [43 Votes], FIBA Africa [54 Votes] , FIBA Asia [44 Votes], & FIBA Oceania
[22 Votes] = 163 votes. FIBA Europe has 50 votes, do the math. JonL, do you really believe that 57
member nations outside of Europe will vote to increase European representation from six to
EIGHT European nations??? And exactly which FIBA Regional Zone will VOLUNTARILY sacrifice
one of THEIR qualifying spots to benefit Europe???
JonL, and to answer your contention that Greece & Italy are "better" teams than Lebanon, Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, & Bahrain. The solution is quite simple, defeat France, Lithuania, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, & Poland in the EUROPEAN U16 qualifiers.
You're both missing the point! FIBA claims the WC "features the world's top 16 men's U17 national teams".
This is plainly false.
It features the top teams from various regions.
If it wants to claim that it's the top teams in the world then it needs another round of qualifiers in which regions play against other regions and only the best go through. Rather than the best in certain regions.
NZ was smashed by France. It had an easy run in Asia. Australia had a dream run in Asia playing against the easiest teams in the easiest region such as Indonesia. What would have happened if Australia had played against European teams to qualifier. It might not have made it through.
It's times for us all to admit that the FIBA World Cup is not the best in the world but simply the best in their region and based on the results, half the teams in this WC finals are very good and the other half likely wouldn't have made it through if they'd played against even mediocre European teams.
Just to respond to this ... NZL actually struggled in Asia this time.
I think Australia would have qualified if they were playing European teams. They have never missed the quarters in the U17 World Cup.
Australia was in the easiest pool in Asia and the easiest pool in Spain. It's had a dream run. It probably would have qualified anyway. Given the lack of tough matches in the run up, it will be interesting to see how things go in the next match now that they're at the pointy end where they play serious contenders.
I think the current system is really not bad. It makes it exclusive enough for Europe that you really have to fight ...
USA and Canada are basically locks, so there is always a fight among mainly PUR DOM ARG BRA MEX for the other two spots.
Asia is a bit tricky because Australia and New Zealand are traditionally so much better than the Asian teams. Lebanon is really an outlier - no China in the tournament, remember they finished seventh the first three events when they still worked at the youth levels.
And you really need two African teams. But these "smaller" teams can really only get better and thereby grow the overall level of the game by facing the best teams.
Countries can also go the Mali route - have younger players play to get exposed to facing USA, FRA, AUS and then they can do something like U19 World Cup 2019.
Europe have hosted the event four of the six times meaning there has been an extra spot for Europe each of those editions. So that's another way for Europe to get another team.
David, my takeaway from the FBI U17 is that the World Cup needs to be revamped. We are not seeing the best basketball teams in the world.
Just look at the scores with some teams being whipped by 50-60 points.
We are missing some of the top teams in the world?
If this is the World Cup then they should be in Spain playing the World Cup.
They aren't here because of the way that matches are played within regions. That's why we have teams like Lebanon and Egypt getting whipped by 50 points rather than the much better teams of Greece, or Italy playing at this tournament.
It is a sad indictment of the way the qualifiers for these tournaments are organized.
Australia as an example has had the easiest run imaginable playing against countries like Indonesia, Jordan and Bahrain to get into this tournament. Incredibly it then landed in the easiest pool of all.
It's time for FIBA to change the way qualifiers are run so that the best teams in the world play the World Cup rather than some of the weakest national teams who are advantaged by being located in Asia and getting to play against Bahrain and Indonesia, hardly basketball powerhouses.
Thanks for the reply ... appreciate the time. I understand the issue but not really sure I entirely agree with you. One thing with FIBA Asia is that Australia and New Zealand have been part of the region since 2017 I believe and are basically two automatic spots in the youth World Cups. If they were not there I could get on board with just three spots for Asia but taking away a spot with Australia and New Zealand in the competition would mean more or less just one "Asian" team would be there. I think there needs to be two spots. I dont think you can take a spot away from Africa - esp after what Mali did at U19 WC in 2019. I do understand the issue but still, i would hate to take away the chance for other countries to advance.
Not suggesting that spots be taken away. I j think that the World Cup should be the best in the world. When some of the world's top teams are missing and some of the world's weakest teams are participating and getting walloped by 50 points then I think that changes need to be looked at.
Maybe more country teams should be going through to a second round of qualifiers in which the best teams in the world then compete for slots in the finals. The World Cup finals should be the best in the world and not the best in a bunch of mis-matched regions.
Based on Lithuania's 10 point victory yesterday against Japan and today's 7 point lead @
the end of the third qtr. against New Zealand. Mr. D. Hein MAYBE correct in his suggestion
that Spain "CONVENIENTLY" lost against Lithuania. In Group B, the ONLY credible opponent
to pull off an upset of Spain is Lithuania. Lithuania will NOT advance past the qtrs. IF they can
only score 57 points by 4:00 of the fourth qtr.
Dear Mr. D. Hein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqNNOiZMldM
This video should give you pause about Victor Wembanyama.
Dear Mr. Hein
This quote is a PRIME example of why I despise Euro Basketball.
Alain LECLERCQ
Je m'exaspère. La compétition est mondiale. La FIBA est internationale et on n'entend que des commentateurs américains qui ne connaissent pas les joueurs étrangers, qui s'extasient sur des exploits individuels, qui oublient le collectif et le travail du passeur, etc... etc.... Je n'aime pas le basket américain bien trop individualiste
I am exasperated. The competition is global. FIBA is international and we only hear American commentators who don't know the foreign players, who rave about individual exploits, who forget
the collective and the work of the setter, etc... etc... I does not like American basketball which is too individualistic
/////////////////////////////////
Number one, Euro Basketball is the round cookie that is FORCED through the square cookie
cutter hole of Euro Soccer. Euro Basketball players are SYSTEM players, their basketball SYS-
TEM masks the lack of athletic players. I did not see ONE Athletic White European player in
FIBA’s 2022 U17 Tournament. Name ONE White player at the U17 Tournament who is anywhere
near Cooper Flagg athletically???
France IMPORTS its athletic players.
I will point out the HYPOCRISY of Alain LECLERCQ when he states: American commentators . . .,
who rave about individual exploits, who forget the collective and the work of the setter, etc... etc... I
does not like American basketball which is too individualistic
In soccer, the South Americans criticize the Europeans for the MECHANICAL, SCRIPTED, & FORMULAIC nature of their soccer. The South Americans prize the individual that can create that
magic moment with a move to shake a defender or the ability to dribble through or around a defender
that breaks their ankles and sets up a free run to the goal.
And I am sure that Alain LECLERCQ does not criticize a French National Team player that INDIVIDUALLY pulls off a great play that scores the winning goal in the waning moments of a
match to win the UEFA Euro Cup or FIFA’s World Cup.
What Alain LECLERCQ is really saying without even realizing it is he wants the scripted play of a classical music concert instead of the creativity, improvisation, & spontaneity of a jazz musician. American basketball at its best is jazz basketball.
Everything that FIBA does comes DIRECTLY from euro soccer. The competition format, the groups,
& the elimination rounds. FIBA’s Tournament qualification uses home & away and that’s fine for EUROPE. However, FIBA’s system does NOT work for the Western Hemisphere because of the TRAVEL distances. I do wish that FIBA would use soccer’s scoring system of 3 points for a win and
0 points for a loss.
IF FIBA where actually serious about their tournaments, they would use a SINGLE TABLE, again, just
like soccer. American Football & American Baseball used to use the single table method. Single table FIBA Tournaments would be a TREMENDOUS benefit for Team USA because of our ability to build deeper rosters and the American NBA players fully understand and embrace the 5 & 7 game series method to determine a champion.
Does anyone really believe that Argentina could or would have defeated Team USA in the 2004 Oly-
mpics in a five or seven game series?
One final note. Many Euro Basketball Fans believe that FIBA’s World Cup is the most prestigious International Basketball Tournament. In the European Basketball Mind the fact that Team USA does
not win like they do in the Olympics that proves that Euro Basketball is better than American Basket-
ball. Funny that since the Modern Olympics is a French invention and Basketball had its first Inter-
national Tournament in the 1932 Los Angeles Games. The American Public & American Athletes fully embraced the Olympic ideal and by 1968 in my experience, it was the ultimate in international competition. FIBA’s Basketball World Cup will NEVER have the geo-political undertones or intrigue
that resulted from the use of sports as a proxy war between Team USA and the USSR. For most American basketball players, the Oly- mpic Gold in Basketball is the ultimate international award.
And I do not see that changing anytime soon.
FIBA founded June 18, 1932.
First FIBA World Cup of Basketball 22 October – 3 November 1950
The U.S. Olympic Committee staged the 1932 Los Angeles Games between Jul 30, 1932 &
Aug 14, 1932.
BTW - Do you follow FIBA's girls/ladies tournaments? Japan just knocked off the Solvenes.
Now Japan has just earned the right to be sacrificed at the hands of Team USA.
Mr. D. Hein
I am a sports nationalist and I grew up in international sports during the Cold War Era of
the Olympics. I watched the 1968 Olympics when I was ten years old.
Spain and France pushing each other to get better will be good for both as they try to catch up to the Americans - which they slowly but surely are doing.
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Can France or Spain duplicate a 44 game 6 consecutive title run? Get back to me when they do.
Can France or Spain's MEN & WOMEN duplicate 4 consecutive [2008, 2012, 2016, 2021] Olympic
Gold Medals in basketball? Get back to me when they do.
Can France or Spain compare to Team USA in FIBA's Senior World Cup for men & women? Get
back to me when they do.
In soccer they always say that YOUTH team success does not necessarily translate to the senior national team.
France & Spain are closer to the USA in the same manner that the Earth orbits closer to the sun
every summer.
Spain's Senior Men's Team best days are BEHIND them. They had a "Golden Generation" and NONE
of their young players can even begin to hope to replace them. France has the best African refugee
team in the world. Better than Canada's African refugee players. France is simply EXPLOITING the human capital of their former African colonies. As for Killian Hayes, Theo Maledon and Malcolm Cazalon, what have they done in the NBA, SQUAT!!!. The three of them can not even SNIFF Ja Morant's shoes.
Name one French or Spanish player that has EVER been the BEST player on an NBA championship Team?
The ONLY French player you ever hear about is Gobert, and that is for his playoff FAILURES as a player.
Utah shipped him off to the Timberwolves because he cannot anchor a championship team in the NBA.
Let's make a bet, who will win more international titles [Men & Women] between now and the Paris Olympics: Team USA, France, Spain? Two FIBA World Cups [Men & Women] & one Olympics - three Medals. Who do you have your MONEY$$$ on?
You have such great passion for the game - it's great. also some excellent knowledge of the international game. Good to see people be so passionate about youth basketball. Really thanks for that.
I believe you have misunderstood me. If I gave the impression that anybody could beat the Americans right now at the youth level - in particular the U17 level, that was not meant. All I am saying is that France in particuliar is developing more depth and that it is the depth that would be necessary to even have a chance to beat the Americans.
Only a fool would bet against USA in important national team events.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DAE98neQag
Show me ANY female player ANYWHERE 20 or younger who can shoot like this!
https://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2022/news/which-2022-u17-world-cup-player-will-have-the-best-pro-career
Did you write & post this story Mr. D. Hein???
Now you know who the FANS consider as the REAL MVP - As you stated: Almost every rational
person agrees that Cooper Flagg deserved the MVP.
yes, all of the articles on the u17 world cup website were written by me
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2023-nba-mock-draft-never-too-early-lottery-picks-as-rockets-win-victor-wembanyama-sweepstakes/
Whitmore is a projected 6th pick & Ware is a projected 15th pick.
Cade played in the 2019 FIBA U19 World Cup. The ONLY player from that
USA U19 team that is NOT in the NBA is Isaac Likekele.
Well, there you go ... Whitmore and Ware will not be playing U19 World Cup. They will be drafted and preparing to play for their NBA teams.
An absolutely plausible scenario. However, Aday Mara Gomez is not NEARLY as good as people
made him out to be. How does a 6'7" 15yr. old TOTALLY outplay a 7'3" 17yr. old that has played
in a professional environment for at least 2-3 years??? Gomez is SLOW and his shooting stroke
is AWFUL.
That game had Spain's best youth team by far and that was their BEST opportunity to date to beat
Team USA. Next year FIBA's 2023 U19 World Cup will be in Debrecen Hungary and Spain will not
have the HOME crowd and I fully expect Flagg, Holland, Peat, Cam Whitmore, & Kel'el Ware to
make the team. Kel'el Ware is a true 7" center and is faster and more nimble than Aday Mara Gomez. Ware at a minimum will neutralize Gomez. Take Gomez out of the equation & Spain falls HARD.
You can see both of these players in this years FIBA Americas U18 Tournament.
Kel'el Ware: POS: C HGT: 7'0" WGT: 223 Current Age: 18 YOG: 2022
Cam Whitmore POS: F/Wing HGT: 6'6" WGT: 237 Current Age: 18 YOG: 2022
I would agree with the likes of Flagg, Holland, Peat and maybe a couple more from the U17 team, but if Whitmore and Ware are one and dones for the draft, then they will not play at U19 World Cup.
Also, Spain are not guaranteed a spot at U19 World Cup etiher. They have to get a top-five spot at U18 European Championship in a couple of weeks
I posted the numbers for these players in the FINAL: Aday Mara, Cooper Flagg, &
Izan ALMANSA PÉREZ. Do the math!
Mr. Hein stated: than teams should never blame refs for losing a game.
Tell that to the 1972 Team USA Basketball Team in Munich. I SAW that game!
I know for a fact that many Eastern Europeans have a VERY low opinion of
FIBA. I wonder why???
Yeah, but my point is ... do not put yourself in the position that the game is so close that one call can decide the game.
Translation: Score beyond the margin of CHEAT!
;-) no need to translate my words ... just limit your mistakes, hit your free throws and protect your glass. then you have done your work most of the time.
basically saying every loss that had a bad call late cannot be blamed on that bad call or the refs.
https://bluestarmedia.org/usa-u17s-roll-to-another-gold-medal/
From the above article.
Almansa was voted the tournament’s MVP by the pro Spanish media, but Flagg, who made the all-tournament team with another rising sophomore Koa Peat– both made the all-tournament team. But there was at least three other strong candidates from Team USA.
Almansa was voted the tournament’s MVP by the pro Spanish media.
Translation: Almansa was voted the tournament’s MVP by the ANTI-American media.
let's not say it was anti-american - you really dont know that.
MVPs from USA is always kind of tough because they have so many stars and are so deep. actually think this was one of the clearer cut choices with flagg.
dont know the breakdown of the mvp vote - onsite media and accredited remote media can vote. have no idea how many remote media voted. imagine every on-site spanish media member voted and those people probably voted for their guy - not against the americans.
that's my take. and also Dick's take. pro spanish - dont translate what is written in english ;-)
I did not write this, but I agree 100%!!!
Comment from another website:
hoopscoop
hoopscoop is offline
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Understandably that the emotions got some of the players. This was some sort of robbery, at this international stage in a final rarely seen. We have at least 4 clear blocking fouls that were called as charge, 3 walking calls that were never ever walks, they called Castillo in the first half with what at
the side or the walk on Holland in the 4th, 2 times the refs awarded Spain the ball that got touched
by Spain, calling Koat his 5th and every time under Spain's basket was open season, calling an un- sportsmanlike without no reason whatsoever. I mean come on this was some shit and then being
angry for not stealing the win they award the MVP as a sort of compensation. Wow.
I would like to READ your response Mr. Hein.
Well, I never comment on refereeing other than teams should never blame refs for losing a game. Not saying this is what happened. But blaming refs for a loss is never the answer. Turn the ball over 12 times instead of 19, hit 79 percent of your free throws instead of 68 percent, give up just 8 ORs instead of 13.
regarding mvp to almansa, no idea what anybody in charge of anything was thinking. you had two americans who were on the all star five and could have been given the award. my clear was mvp was flagg, who also showed up big time in the final.
really have no explanation for almansa winning mvp